BENNIFER 2.0 WITH HUNTER HARRIS

Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez are having trouble with their marriage. So, I called my good friend Hunter Harris to discuss their issues, their careers, and what happens from here?

By now, the news of Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez’s marital troubles interrupting their assumed bliss is on the front page, and ready to be blasted in technocolor. While Affleck has long been in the public eye — directing and starring in movies, while rehabilitating what was once a cautionary career — Jennifer Lopez is a pop star, one of the more formidable ones of her generation. This is now the second time they’re going through relationship drama: they split up in 2004 after meeting on the set of Gigli, because of “excessive media attention.” So, now, 20 years later, Bennifer is back to having their spectacle dissected. Is all of this too much? Should we care? Where do their careers in pop culture and history together stand right now? To discuss this with me, I emailed the brilliant Hunter Harris, founder of her newsletter Hung Up. 

JB: Hunter, we are now in the midst of another public schism between Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez. TMZ reported that on Sunday night, Affleck yelled — The Town style — at paparazzi as he was leaving J-Lo and his house in Beverly Hills. The photos are hilarious. So, what do we make of this happening again? Something tells me this will continue throughout the summer, and possibly more, before we start the resolution process. 

HH: I’m surprised you think there is a resolution in our future — most people don’t! But it’s the summer and we are talking about two Leos and the streets are calling their names. J.Lo is simply too good at being lovelorn; Ben Affleck was born to be divorced. We are witnessing … I don’t know … nature correcting itself? Bennifer has been my favorite celebrity story of the last few years because their reunion always seemed like beautiful and disastrous in a perfect balance: how lovely to think that, over 20 years and two separate marriages and five children, two people haven’t realy changed? That they are still feeling called to one another? And how romantic-tragic that, again, it seems like they’ve landed in the same place. But not the exact same place — their problems in 2004 do not appear to be their problems right now.

JB: In 2004, it seemed that Affleck was someone who didn’t have a secure direction for his career, especially as a movie star. He had just done three unequivocal flops: Daredevil, Payback, and Gigli. (I vaguely remember my father, who was a Daredevil super fan, banning all Affleck content in the house because he was pissed off by Affleck’s bad turn as the Manhattan superhero). The relationship with J-Lo, someone who for all of her merely average qualities is excellent at knowing how to be famous in the public eye, always felt a tad off. I was young, then, but I have memories of discussing the aspect of her as this New York, big city, Latina woman who had dated rappers and just got out of a marriage with another man, and he, being this working class gringo from Boston. To his credit, three years after the initial breakup, he rejuvenated his career by deciding to direct crime thrillers, doing what he is good at: catering to Boston as a city of corruption, hardened criminals, and stupendous accents. What I find uniquely compelling is I can see their attraction for one another, but I can also see why their relationship is rocky. He constantly seems visibly distressed about fame. What is it about being famous that Affleck struggles so much with?

HH: Oh suddenly a man can’t be a soft king? No, no — I see what you’re getting at. There is an external incongruousness to them. She made “Let’s Get Loud” and he directed Argo. (That being said, she spent $20 million dollars making an album to make a movie to make a documentary about both, and he put that one gratuitous shirtless shot of him doing pull-ups in The Town … like I said … Leos.) Ben Affleck wants to be taken seriously and J.Lo takes herself too seriously. But they are both veteran celebrities. Ben Affleck can give a pretty good press tour. He’s a pretty good director, and started directing the exact right material at the exact right moment. (Except for Live By Night, which is discussed just as often as it should be which is not at all.) He’s very good at frowning for the paparazzi. He’s been beaten up a lot in the press over his public struggle with addiction, over his cheating scandal, over his acting (remember when the entire internet hissed when he was cast at Batman?) … but he can generally turn it around into a playful shrug or a thoughtful reflection. What I’m getting at is that he’s almost as good as being famous as J.Lo is, if not better. (He does have two Oscars, after all.)

It’s rumored that the split is being caused by Ben’s own misgivings about how public J.Lo wants their relationship to be. And sure Ben Affleck can “struggle with fame” but he’s still exclusively dated very famous women (and one nanny). How much can you hem and haw about not wanting to be so present in the public eye when you’re not only a movie star but you’ve dated Gwyneth Paltrow. Be serious! His performance as himself in all of J.Lo’s tiktoks (remember that soda fountain in his office?) and in her docs (as the doting husband telling her she looks perfect, always) is some of his best work on camera.

This is all a roundabout way of saying that I don’t know how much I buy this narrative that she is driving him away because he doesn’t want to show up for some IG posts. The last time they broke up, if I recall correctly, there was some small scandal with him going to a strip club and making out with a few dancers. J.Lo leaves every relationship when a man embarasses her, and she called it off. I’m not convinced we’re getting real answers, just a lot of thinly sourced guesses.

JB: Points were made, sister. Points were made. To give her credit, her turn in Steven Soderbergh’s Out of Sight might just be the best work – acting or directing, or Tik Tok — out of their entire filmography. Soderbergh knew just how to use her — the scenes with Clooney burst with sexual mystery and forbidden romance — and she’s jaw-droppingly sexy in it. (Can you believe that the movie only grossed 38 million, domestically? I’d do a Nicole Kidman-esque intro for Regal Cinemas for a movie like that to come out again).  When I throw an Out of Sight themed birthday party in 2028  when the thirty year anniversary hits, I’d love for you to come. Bring the wig that Albert Brooks wears. 

You’re absolutely right about the male entitlement, or to be kinder, privilege, that he exhibits when people discuss him, or something leaks about him being dissatisfied with fame. He married Jennifer Garner and that seemingly was not enough for him; he dated Ana de Armas too. He’s had meetings with President Obama; had debates on Bill Maher’s show. (Don’t ask me why I know that). This is someone who should understand fame. The videos of him at the award show — looking amusingly bored and checked out — reminded me of the times where Kanye would frown when the camera got on him. You’re a famous guy! You love fame! 

He wants it on his terms, though. How private does he want her to be? I couldn’t conjure any empathy for him when I saw that. Part of why she has been able to be so successful — and you can probably speak to this a little bit better than I can — is that people see her as a real person, despite all of the glamour and power she contains. She has multitudes. She’s fallen in-love with a few men: her backup dancer, a rapper/executive who will not be named, a Latin singer, and Alex Rodriguez. All those guys are distinctly different men — who live completely different lives and inhabit contrasting spaces. (To be honest, though. A-Rod always felt off to me. He seems like a guy who needs a white blonde that he can just pump iron and talk about finance with).

You seem to be throwing cold water on the idea of a resolution; maybe so. But, I wonder if J-Lo pulls the plug. They are now living apart, and she is on a trip to Europe. (She flew commercial to Paris. What a concept!). There’s also the manner of what her career looks like now, if they do split, or if they continue to keep trying at this. She is an incredibly accomplished woman, but I can’t tell you where she stands as a pop star in 2024. Is she aging gracefully? Do people care? The documentary seemed to come and go, with no strand of resonance with youthful tastemakers. 

HH: Her tour being cancelled seemed like such a disaster but basically every musician not named Beyonce or Taylor or Olivia is rethinking their tour strategy right now, or perhaps should be. I actually like one of the songs on “This Is Me … Now” — it’s exactly the kind of music Jackson Maine accused Ally Maine (nee Campana) of making in A Star Is Born, but hey it was better than the latest Dua Lipa release. The public’s appetite for music from J.Lo is not as great as the public’s appetite for daily dramas from J.Lo, regardless of how good that music is. (Women over 40, even the ones who really are vocalists have a near-impossible time charting. J.Lo is always trying to make a damn ballad. She’s a better actress anyway.)

How does J.Lo move forward from here, and where? I think it’d be a mistake to go into hiding and lick her wounds, and I think she knows that. She has definitely seeded a lot of the “I hate J.Lo” rhetoric online right now — I’ve seen a dozen trending topic stories about it, but not very many actual viral posts saying “fuck this lady.” People love talking about J.Lo, they just don’t want to go to her concerts or listen to her music. They like her in movies, even bad ones (Her Netflix movie Atlas — Gravity meets Geek Squad — is doing numbers that make me think “Stop the count!” but I digress, maybe they’re real). The intrigue around Bennifer divorcing is honestly pretty great for both of them, especially the way it’s playing out. This is a victimless crime! The worst thing you could say about Ben Affleck in this is that he should’ve known he married an international pop star when he married an international pop star? The worst spin on this for J.Lo is that she tried and failed at love again? The meanest take is “I told you so?” Come on! That’s a pretty clean breakup. 

… Which does lend itself to the thesis that this is all to give her an easy reason to cancel the tour and not have to blame the zero demand. Usually I don’t believe in celebrity conspiracy theories — people are messy and careless at all walks of life, in every room, at every paygrade — but it doesn’t not make sense. Maybe J.Lo really does want the $20 million she spent on that multimedia project back! But no, I think they’re over, and I think it isn’t because of anything the tabloids say. I think they were caught up in the momentum and now their relationship is ending in the most regular way possible: someone just fell out of love.

JB: “Someone just fell out of love” just made my heart sink. Miranda Hobbes would love this exchange. You make a great point about the floor for this breakup being small. No one sinks lower knowing that this one didn’t work out. If anything, I give them credit for trying at love again. It’s hard. People are complicated, icks happen without warning, and without any pretense. It’s just life. Affleck can go back to trying to make auteur movies; there’s more movies that he can make — more eccentric Blake Lively accents that he can tap into. J-Lo’s J-Lo. I can see her taking a break, and then coming back with another Hustlers-like role where she gets Academy buzz from the kind of people who gatekeep those things. I could also see her starring in another Marry Me, a movie that I did not actively hate. This is a woman whose iconic green Versace dress, has such a cultural footprint in the fashion world and beyond, that she was able to wear an updated version of it in 2019 and she looked just as sparkling as she did in 2000. Never count J-Lo totally out; it’s fine to ignore her, but never think that she won’t pop out and show people that there’s a reason she’s been able to hold people's attention for 25 or so years. She’s a born star — a careerist with charisma. “Jenny from the Block '' has always been her most compelling single to me, because it was an identity politics anthem. I wonder, if after this subsides, she’ll try something like that again — giving her Bronx roots a wink, despite how famous she is at 54 (!!!!!) now. 

HH: “More eccentric Blake Lively accents that he can tap into” you are nasty for that one! J.Lo actually does need to hold on any new music and get back to making movies, you’re right. She was electric in Hustlers. She ran the wedding movie feature film factory of the 00s like she was running the rose petal factory that powers her heart. (If you know, you know.)

When we finally get a divorce announcement, I will expect nothing less than that series of gonzo Urban Outfitters-copywritten nonsequitors Kate Bosworth used to announce her divorce: “Our eyes look more deeply into one another, with more courage now. In the process of letting go, we have come to acknowledge that our love will never end.” At the end of the day, I’m sorry, Ben Affleck is just too good at being divorced. He is preternaturally divorced, and it’s time for him to be on the frontlines again. Now when they do this all again in 20 more years, I’ll be cheering them on just the same. Jayson, it’s been a pleasure.

JB: Ditto

.